Historical figures

[Markos]

Pier Gerlofs Donia lived in an interesting era in the world's history, in the late 15th and early 16th century. He had quite a few famous allies (and opponents).

Some allies include:

-Charles of Egmond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles,_Duke_of_Guelders), powerful duke who later turned on Pier

-Maarten van Rossum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maarten_van_Rossum), mercenary general, a bit of Egmond's henchman, history-wise

-Wijerd Jelckaam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wijerd_Jelckama), another giant Frisian freedom fighter - said to have been the son of Pier's sister (some sources say he wasn't related though), Pier's successor

Some enemies:

-George, Duke of Saxony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George,_Duke_of_Saxony), his Landsknecht regiment (Black Hand) killed Pier's wife and son and burned his farm
-Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V, ... an_Emperor), the Mighty Emperor who officially who ruled most of Europe, including Frisia at the time
-Charles of Egmond, again - he later turned on Pier, after all
-One mysterious "Count of Nychlenborch", reportedly and old enemy of Pier. He asked a dying Pier where he wanted to go when he died, who then answered: "Nae Myn Heer ta".

[Remco]

You're on a roll! You've picked a couple of figures that are somehow related to the legend of Pier. However, some do have a much greater influence than others, and not all of them will play a role in the game. I think we should hurry up the character profile articles :-)

[Markos]

You're on a roll! You've picked a couple of figures that are somehow related to the legend of Pier.

And I bet you'll make up quite a lot of figures too. I don't expect to see Pier meeting Emperor Charles in person, would be pretty unrealistic.

However, some do have a much greater influence than others, and not all of them will play a role in the game.

You can only fit so much in one game, I get it. ;)

I think we should hurry up the character profile articles :-)

Would be nice. Untill then, I thank God there's wikipedia. :P

[Remco]

And I bet you'll make up quite a lot of figures too. I don't expect to see Pier meeting Emperor Charles in person, would be pretty unrealistic.

In terms of characters in the main storyline, we're staying very close to the facts. We will however create an atmosphere around certain charactes that fit will with the story that we're telling.

[USSGreatePier]

I'm sure all the necessary historical figures who were involved will be featured or mentioned... But how about historical events? :) Maybe Pier commemorated the Battle of Warns (1345) himself, another epic battle against the Dutch. The Battle of Warns was commemorated until about 1500, so when Pier was alive and about 20 years of age... Maybe worth a passing reference by Pier himself at some point in the game...

[Markos]

I'm sure all the necessary historical figures who were involved will be featured or mentioned... But how about historical events? :) Maybe Pier commemorated the Battle of Warns (1345) himself, another epic battle against the Dutch. The Battle of Warns was commemorated until about 1500, so when Pier was alive and about 20 years of age... Maybe worth a passing reference by Pier himself at some point in the game...

Sounds good to me. Although if the game starts in 1515 he'll be 35 and not 20. Although I doubt all Frisians stopped commemorating the Battle of Warns altogether in 1500. :)

Also, I have heard the mother of Pier came from a noble family. I dunno about his father, but does this make our "humble farmer" a man of good background and substantial wealth?

Per wikipedia, on the Arumer Zwarte Hoop:

he leader was the farmer Pier Gerlofs Donia, whose farm had been burned down and whose kinfolk had been killed by a marauding Landsknecht regiment. Since the regiment had been employed by the Habsburg authorities to suppress the civil war of the Schieringers and Vetkopers, Donia put the blame on the authorities. After this he gathered angry peasants and some petty noblemen from Frisia and Gelderland and formed the Arumer Zwarte Hoop.

They weren't all just a bunch of poor farmers and outlaws (although their decision to rebel against the authorities did make them outlaws, of course). Some of them probably came from good families.

Another distant relative of Pier was Jancko Douwama:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jancko_Douwama

Unlike Pier and Jelckama, he betrayed their cause and eventually even joined in with the Habsburgers:

In 1514 Douwama was leader of Charles' Guelder army that invaded Friesland. In 1517 disagreements between the Duke of Gelre and Jancko concerning the planning of the governing board of Friesland, and Gelre refusing to recognize Douwama as hereditary-lord eventually led to Jancko changing allegiances. In 1521 Jancko swore an oath of allegiance to the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V, the arch-enemy of the Duke of Gelre.

So it appears the family of Donia was quite important in those years. And Pier had a good cousin and a bad one. Now that makes for some interesting plotlines. :)

[Remco]

Also, I have heard the mother of Pier came from a noble family. I dunno about his father, but does this make our "humble farmer" a man of good background and substantial wealth?

Correct, The 'Donia' family (Piers' Mother) supposedly had their own Dwelling Hill (Terp) not far from where Pier had his farm. In those days, even being a farmer with your own land would put you way above the 'average' folks from the villages.

Wealth in that time was expressed in land, cattle and produce. In the cities money was already considered the main currency, but in the villages trade was still the most common way of getting what you needed.

[grundvarg]

This is all pretty interesting. Where can I find more detail about his life/death and the men he led into battle.

My company started a game about 4 years ago ( I am not promoting it here at all - just want to get as much information on Pier as i can) We were looking for a Mercenary Hero (there are 2 in the base game and came across Pier on Wikipedia. I was moved by his story - He seems to be the real deal. Any way we decided to use him as one of the mercs and there is very little information on him.

If you can point me to any more info I would be grateful. I found this game when I was searching about him.

Also if you want I would be willing to promote your game with mine in the game materials - for more information see crossofthedutchman.com etc.

Our Primary market will be homeschooling families and people that want a fun exciting war game without magic ....

[Remco]

Actually, it seems that the story of Pier occurs quite a couple of times in the Netherlands. A huge man with superhuman strength who was also a natural leader. Are you looking for any country's heritage in specific?

[grundvarg]

I am after what he was in life. He is built around the persona then culture. For instance I Choose Pier specifically - it would not matter where he was from per se that was a secondary concern

[Knotsie]

Wow, this all gets me pretty exciting actually, while I always hated the subject history on school.
I now see that you guys could make a pretty cool atmosphere in this game, with humble villagers who respect Pier, maybe soldiers from some of the characters with power walking through the village (maybe even undermining the villagers)
That would really make you feel like fighting to help the villagers (I don't know the story of Grutte Pier though, and I rather find out by playing the game)

anyway, I really think you should also talk about the atmosphere in this game, because it has great potentional :)

[Mark]

Maarten van Rossum, isn't that the guy we celebrate on Saint Marten day on 11th of November? (North-Holland,West-Frisia at least)

Just realized I am bumping a lot of old topics, but this forum is a bit dead sadly enough

[Bram]

No it's not the same Maarten. On 11 November when some parts of the Netherlands celebrate Saint Maarten it's about Saint Martinus van Tours, the bishop of the city Tours in France. Don't know much about it though, I'm not from the Saint-Maarten-celebrating-part of the country

Oh and bumping is ok, Keeps the forum alive so you're doing great!

[Mark]

No it's not the same Maarten. On 11 November when some parts of the Netherlands celebrate Saint Maarten it's about Saint Martinus van Tours, the bishop of the city Tours in France. Don't know much about it though, I'm not from the Saint-Maarten-celebrating-part of the country

Oh and bumping is ok, Keeps the forum alive so you're doing great!

Ah my bad, I remember Maarten van Rossum now.He played a major part in the 1969 series Floris (got the series on DVD)